Two groups are partnering to conduct a “protest with art” demonstration and “sleep out” at the Lucerne Hotel on Saturday, August 29, beginning at 6pm.
@UWSopenhearts and @theallstreetjournal are doing this to raise awareness and support for homeless New Yorkers.
The art protest will go from 6-9pm.
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Homeless Lucerne Residents will be Relocated
From 9pm-6am, attendees will “sleep out” in front of the building. The flyer below recommends those attending bring their own sleeping bag.
In reference to the newly formed West Side Community Organization, which has already raised over $110,000, the Instagram posts state how “Certain members of the UWS community are actively trying to relocate shelter residents, who are majority black and brown men, to overcrowded shelters elsewhere in the city, thereby increasing their risk of exposure to the virus and limiting their access to necessary resources. This group of Upper West Siders has raised exorbitant amounts of money to pay legal fees to remove shelter residents, funds which could be better put to use by service providers for unhomed New Yorkers.”
An August 19 press release from the West Side Community Organization states its mission includes better policies for those who are struggling, even though they have been accused of having the sole mission of getting these homeless residents relocated.
Part of this press release states that “WestCo’s mission is to advance safer and more compassionate policies regarding New Yorkers who are struggling with homelessness, mental illness and drug addiction.” It continues by stating that “Funds will be used to create and administer the newly formed organization, which will promote adequate services for those in critical need, help improve the quality of life for residents, and foster a healthy environment for small businesses to thrive.”
Earlier hotel shelter coverage
I can’t believe how this group of people don’t care about destroying our neighborhood. Do they even live here? I doubt it. A lot of the homeless need to be in a controlled environment They need help and the hotels can’t help them
“ increasing their risk of exposure to the virus and limiting their access to necessary resources. This group of Upper West Siders has raised exorbitant amounts of money to pay legal fees to remove shelter residents, funds which could be better put to use by service providers for unhomed New Yorkers”
The amount raised is NOT exorbitant. It is the equivalent of what the city is paying to hotels in order to house the homeless for ONE night. This group of artists’ outrage is misdirected.
P.S. Is there a surplus of ventilators located on the UWS that no one told me about?
Harriet: Every one of the people participating lives on the UWs. UI have been here for 55 years, and will be participating. Our neighborhood is not being “destroyed,” at least not by the temporary placement of some homeless men and women in the area. As for “They need help and the hotels can’t help them, ” the social service providers at the hotels (Project Renewal at Lucerne, Help USA at Belleclaire, CUCS at Belnord) are among the top such service providers out there. The residents are getting even more services now than they do at the wo shelters from which they came on the Lower East Side. They have onsite health car, including covid testing, onsite case workers, onsite programs, and are referred to those off-site services not being offered – mostly for lack of pace: There are 50 full-time staff at the Lucerne, including a nurse and a program director, and !30 of the men work, so they go off to jobs. you need to educate yourself about what is ACTUALLY happening instead of listening to misinformation and propaganda.
concerneduwser:
First, the City pays very little of the cost. FEMA pays 75%, and the State also pays a percent. So your comment in that regard is inaccurate.
And why bring up ventilators? As noted in my response to Harriet above, these men get onsite health care, including an onsite nurse, and a medical van that comes around twice a week. They get wellness checks six times a day, including twice when their temperature is taken. Failure to be in one’s room and answer the door for these checks is grounds for removal from the program. They are Covid tested once a month, but can request a test any time. The most recent mandatory testing was done last Wed and Thurs. There was a single “positive” result, and that person was transferred to a quarantine facility immediately.
You, too, need to educate yourself and get the FACTS before you make wild, unsubstantiated and fear=mongering claims.
Again can we please get real. Why put 4 hotels of homeless in one neighborhood our UWS. You had destroyed our neighborhood. Why not one uptown , UES ( o the soon to be ex mayor) lives there, , staten island or upstate where there is room . What type of planning is this ? Take a nice neighborhood and make the elderly, children and others scared to walk the streets day or night. What’s next Mr Ex Mayor
“Person shot on 71st and CPW” -Citizen App, 1 hour ago. I live in the area and get NEARLY DAILY and certainly weekly notifications of a person being SHOT OR STABBED. One of these crimes per week for months now, often 2-3x per week. Sick of it.
Ian. If your heart is big enough, then your home is big enough. Set an example by taking some of the recovering addicts into your home and demonstrating the compassion you wish others to show.
Joe: And tell me, you know this is related to the “hotel homeless” HOW? You don’t. you are making an assumption and scapegoating. Not a good look. Thus far, NONE of the serious crimes that have occurred in the pats few weeks – the stabbing and punching incidents at 72nd Street, the “sucker punch” incident a 75/Col, or any other – has been related to the hotel homeless. You can confirm that with the 20th Precinct, which I did.
STOP SCAPEGOATING THESE MEN! IF you know for a certainty that any of them is guilty of a serious crime, tell the manager of the program provider at the hotel. And if you are a victim of a crime, or actually SEE one occurring, call 911.
But unless you know FOR A CERTAINTY that one of the hotel homeless is involved, STOP blaming them! THAT is what we are protesting – intolerance, demonization, scapegoating, and mean-spiritedness.
Since you are so confident of the policy’s benign affect to the area. I invite you to bring your family children to help with the art projects and sleep out. This is not preventing Covid 19 spread and is a further excuse by our Mayor to reverse gentrification in NYC (Similar situations are occurring in gentrified parts of downtown Brooklyn) I would gladly go along if in return the City subsidized a 50% rent decrease to the citizens of the UPW and other affected areas for the reduced quality of life now provided in these areas.
Michael:
I spent 12 years working with the street homeless on the UWS, offering everything from comfort, to food, to money, to assistance in getting them IDs and benefits, to getting them placed in housing. And I have been involved in the homeless issue for over two decades, on the front lines and with various organizations.
What have YOU done?
Ian Alterman: Why would you think it’s okay to squander FEMA money????? There are entire communities currently being displaced by global warming / hurricanes that are going to need those funds. We need to be responsible with this money
I am going to bring my tent. My Zabars picnic food.. a bottle of wine
Where is the bathroom??
Ian.. we are all compassionate and sympathetic. You can be sympathetic to barbarism or sympathetic to civilization, not both unfortunately. Civilization is fragile and easily destroyed, barbarism is not.
I had no idea how many heartless, cruel people lived on the Upper West Side. My eyes have certainly been opened. Thankfully there are people like Ian here, too, to hopefully serve as a counterbalance.
Well, this should be interesting. I wonder how many campers will be left by 6AM. I winder how many will actually show up. More a publicity stunt than anything constructive. So typical of a certain type of “progressive”.
Concerneduwser:
Do you consider it “squandering” to save people’s lives? The point of moving the homeless out of congregate shelters – which would have become petri dishes for the virus – was to be able to socially distance them better, this AVOIDING the kinds of “clusters” that could have formed, which would have affected not just them, but all of US as the interacted in the community. In fact, if FEMA’s raison d’etre is to protect and save lives, then the money being spent her is EXACTLY what that money is for.
Instead of the shelters becoming petri dishes, the hotels are now the petri dishes. of Covid19. there is no social distancing or sheltering in place as far as I can see. Many are gathered outside without masks loitering the area as the Department of Homeless Services neglected to realize that they have to eat and hotel rooms don’t have feeding faculties. In addition please explain why they are urinating and crapping openly on the street when they are provided with private bathrooms in their hotel rooms?
Michael: So now the homeless are “barbaric?’ Wow. You only reveal your own lack of understanding, tolerance and compassion when you keep using words like that.
Margaret: Have you ever heard of covenant House? They have been around since 1972, providing housing, food and social serves for runaway youth; they have more recently expanded their program to include the homeless in general.
I ask this because “Sleep-Outs” were created by Covenant house FOR TE VERY PURPOSE of showing “solidarity” with the homeless. they are held all over the country, and their is one huge one that happens all over the country on the same night.
I am saddened by your willingness to make such comments without having any information or facts about it.
It’s bizarre that some people continue to organize around supporting the operation at the Lucerne. No one is suggesting that the residents be moved back to shelters when the conditions are unsafe, or that they be pushed out onto the street. Why does anyone care if the residents are moved to a hotel in a more appropriate neighborhood, i.e. Midtown, or if plans are established to safely return to shelters? There is obviously another motive. Who is behind these efforts? Is it the owner of the Lucerne looking to protect his stream of income? There’s more to the story here…
RJ: Do you have any background or experience in public policy or planning? If not, how the heck do you know why certain decision were made, and others were not? There may be very good reasons for it. It’s easy to be an armchair general when one has zero knowledge or experience in a subject.
As for the four hotels, there are currently 62 hotels being used. We have four. The UES has one. Chelsea/HK has 8. Tribeca has several. But the overwhelming majority are in midtown. so we are hardly being bombarded somehow.
As for “scared to walk the streets at night,” that it more in your mind than it is a reality. First, except for shootings, burglary (neither of which involved the homeless, either street or hotel) and robberies (none of which has been traced back to the “hotel homeless”), crime is DOWN on the UWS, by quite some degree. This is confirmed by the precinct and by CompStat, which tracks the numbers. I am a fairly small 62-year-old man who has NO fear of walking around the UWS at any time of day or night. Never have. As well, even the young families with children in my building have expressed no concern about taking their children out to playgrounds, or allowing their teenagers to go out by themselves. You are buying into right-wing fear-mongering. Obviously, that is your prerogative, and you are entitled to your feelings, but the “facts on the ground” do not support the level of your fear and concern.
MM:
“No one is suggesting that the residents be moved back to shelters when the conditions are unsafe.”
With respect, that is not true. Upper West Siders for Safe Streets (UWSSS) formed the 501c4 West Side Community Group for EXACTLY that purpose: to SUE the City to move the homeless out of the hotels NOW – whether it is safe or not. Their attempts to “walk this back” are absurd. They made it very clear what their purpose was when they formed, and hired Randy Mastro to help them sue the City.
And your use of the term “appropriate” is EXACTLY the kind of NIMBY mentality that did not exist on the UWS until recently.
Hi Ian,
Thank you for all your comments. I am ashamed of the behavior of some of our neighbors. Their callousness is distressing to witness. I am so saddened to see how fear and hatred of the other has come sprung to life here. I honestly didn’t realize that so many of our neighbors would be so willing to dehumanize their fellow human beings in this way.
Thank you for trying to help people understand that their words and actions are cruel.
Resident communist: I apologize if this sounds odd, but it is hard to tell if you are being serious or sarcastic. Assuming the former, thank you sincerely for your kind words. If the latter, your sarcasm is noted. (And if it IS the former, I think you will understand this comment.)
Elizabeth:
Thank you for your kind words. Sadly, I think many here reacting from two things. First, a lack of accurate information. Second, they are conflating several issues, of which the homeless/hotel homeless are only one, and “coming out on the other side” by demonizing and scapegoating the homeless/hotel homeless. Because some of the other issues are causing them such concern and fear, I’m not sure there is a way to get them to see what they are doing, and perhaps realize that compassion and tolerance are not mutually exclusive from legitimate concerns about a safe and clean community.
Peace.
Ian Alterman:
We, as a society, should definitely be concerned for the Homeless and I respect your cause. But your position of totally denying the fact that placing Homeless in 4 Hotels in the UWS has not impact at all in the neighborhood, just makes you loss any credibility.
Instead of understanding both sides and trying to find solutions for both parties, you create rage and frustration because we feel our concerns are ignored.
I’m a mother of 2 young kids, and when you states “that it more in your mind than it is a reality”, I can almost hear you mocking me. Yes, I am scare, and you have not right to mock us, just because you are not. Independently of the fear being justified or not.
I’m also Mexican, and speak broken English, and I assure you that the UWS is the most welcoming place I have been in the USA. Wonderful people lives here and being scare of drug addict and mental ill people is not racist, it’s not discrimination, it’s not selfish, its just a rational fear.
We believe our (and our families) daily life changed because of this situation, so it’s normal we react strongly; on your side, I don’t believe you daily life is affected by the situation. Make your point that you disagree with the removal but why so much rage and anger against us?
Your radical position, make me think that you have an ulterior motive for lobbing against removing them.
Ian Alterman:
I respectfully disagree — the organizations mentioned have never indicated that they expect the residents to move back into shelters before it is safe. If not yet safe, then the expectation is to move the residents to a hotel in a non residential neighborhood.
And I don’t think it’s appropriate to normalize open drug use, harassment, and the threat of violence on sidewalks in any residential neighborhood. I live 2 blocks from the Lucerne, and I have been directly threatened in the middle of the day by residents on more than one occasion since they moved in. This has caused me to not walk on specific streets and not go outside after dark (which won’t be an option in a couple of months when it’s dark outside when I get home from work).
I state again that I find it bizarre that anyone is so passionate about the residents specifically staying at the Lucerne. What is the true motivation? Why would someone care so much that these residents not be moved to a hotel in a commercial district that they would sleep on the sidewalk overnight, in the summer heat with threat of rain, etc? Are these people being paid to demonstrate support of a hidden agenda? There is definitely more to the story…
Concerned Mom:
Please show me where I said or suggested that the influx of the hotel homeless had “no impact at all” on the neighborhood. I am really getting sick and tired of people putting words in my mouth. In fact, I just posted a response to someone else which CLEARLY stated that that is NOT my position.
Instead of putting words and my mouth and “hearing what you want to hear,” maybe you should take the time to read carefully so you can respond accurately.
As for “mocking you,” that is not my intent. And as I pointed out elsewhere, there are several families with children in my building, and NONE of them has expressed ANY level of concern, much less the hyperventilating I hear from others, which, again, I believe is the result of a combination of bad information and fear-mongering.
And I do not harbor rage or anger against “us” (whoever “us” may be). But I do get frustrated when words are put in my mouth, when people don’t read what I actually write, when people proceed from false assumption and make claims based on lack of information, when (in some cases) my actual long and deep knowledge and experience on this issue is pooh-poohed or dismissed by people who have neither, and when people regurgitate what are essentially right-wing talking points without doing a modicum of research to find out whether they are true.
it is not “rage and anger” It is frustration, disappointment and shock at the reactions of many people.
MM
You read my mind. I see now that is not obvious just to me, there must be an ulterior motive.
MM:
Yet again putting words in my mouth It seems there is HUGE issue with reading comprehension among a lot of people here. I did not say anything about “the organizations mentioned have never indicated that they expect the residents to move back into shelters before it is safe.” YOU made a comment about the NIMBY group, and I said they formed for the very purpose of suing the City to move the homeless out of the hotels NOW. The point, of course, is that they are going to sue whether or not the onsite providers think it is a good idea. I don’t think the lawsuit will be successful, but THAT was my comment, based on YOUR comment. But you decided to change the subject rather than actually read and hear what I wrote.
As for your being threatened, tell me, do you have photographs of every person at the Lucerne? If not, how can you be certain that ANY of the resident there are involved? There are plenty of street homeless who can be aggressive. But no, you WANT to blame and scapegoat the residents of the hotel.
As for purpose and hidden agendas, do you not understand why this was done? The shelters are cheek to jowl, with beds 2′-3′ apart. They are petri dishes for the virus. The reason this was done was to move a portion of them into different housing to AVOID that and the vicus “clusters” that could have resulted – which would impact no only the men themselves, but all of US as they interacted on the streets. In other words, the point was to SAVE LIVES. Apparently, you care more about your own comfort than you do about saving lives, particularly lives you seem to disdain.
I and others are willing to take a temporary “hit” to our quality of life if it means that lives will be saved, and that people will survive the virus.
Ian,
You keep mocking “me” (not to say “us”): “there are several families with children in my building, and NONE of them has expressed ANY level of concern”.
So that should be enough for me to forget my fears? Wow ! Consider me cure of fear.
CM:
It is not “mocking” to point out that other mothers are NOT concerned or fearful. As I implied, you are free to be concerned and fearful if you wish, but I continue to believe that those fears and concerns – or at least the DEGREE of them – is not warranted based on the actual facts “on the ground.” A person drinking alcohol or smoking pot,, or even urinating in public is NOT a “threat” to you or your children. And as reported by the 20th precinct, there has not been a SINGLE incident in which a homeless person has done ANYTHING to even warrant arrest. And the “hotel homeless” have been with us now for an entire month, and the street homeless even longer.
So no, I am not “mocking” you, unless you do not know the definition of that word. I am pointing out that the degree of your fears and concerns is not based on facts or evidence; it is based on feelings. And while you are entitled to your feelings, we CAN “cure’ ourselves of unwarranted fears and concerns if we want to, and want to continue to go about our daily lives, particularly when the actual facts and evidence support such “cure.”
Ian – A better use of your time would be speaking to the guys on 79th and Broadway who routinely yell at pedestrians, jump and dance around without their shirts on (and no masks), don’t exercise any form of social distancing, and urinate in the bushes on the Broadway median. Perhaps try to convince them to go into a shelter somewhere (even if at the Lucerne). I think people would appreciate the cleansing of that intersection far more than your “art”.
Long-term:
I have not only tried to speak with Karl, I have also tried, among with Goddard-Riverside, to get him the help he needs. However, he is a mentally ill alcoholic who has refused assistance several times, and one cannot “force” someone to accept assistance. What have YOU done?
And btw, it is not illegal to have one’s shirt off or jump and dance around a median. As for urinating in the bushes, that is a “violation” for which the only remedy is a ticket, And the NYPD is not going to waste it’s time writing tickets for minor violations, particularly when almost all those tickets are thrown out of court anyway.
As for Karl’s new “friends,” they are being monitored by the NYPD, and were in fact forced off the median for a while. But there is no legal way to prevent them from returning.
If you want these things to change, the remedy is to lobby your lawmakers to write new laws making things illegal, or strengthening the laws that already exist.
I don’t think there is any reason to send these folks elsewhere. Sure the empty Times Square area would’ve made more sense in terms of neighborhood acceptance. But they are here so let’s help them. My only complaint is the sex offenders: I want them gone and sent to an island far away from everyone. I don’t believe they can be rehabilitated.
Okay. Let’s get some FACTS out there. shall we?
There are a total of 139 hotels being used, with 62 in Manhattan. Midtown has the MOST hotels, in fact, the lion’s share. The UWS has 4, the UES has one (in Sutton Place, no less), Chelsea/HK has eight (the most after midtown), Tribeca has a few, and other areas also have a few. So the UWS is by no means bearing the brunt of this.
And btw, EVERY area of NYC is now residential to one degree or another, including the times Square area. There is, in act, an upscale condo on the corner of Broadway and 48th Street. With the conversion of buildings in Midtown (both east and west), and the financial district, there are no more non-residential areas in Manhattan. So let’s stop with this “put them in a non-residential neighborhood” stuff. It doesn’t wash.
As for the sex offenders, there are none left in any of the UWS hotels; they have ALL been moved out. And it worth noting that sex offenders are registered, and tracked and monitored by the NYS Sex Registry. Most of them have no living restrictions, because they are not active. Those who are considered active or potentially active ARE in separate facilities. And don’t forget that there are, and have been, sex offenders living amongst us for yeas and years. you may not even know that one of your neighbors is a registered sex offender, and probably don’t care because the point is that they are “just like the rest of us,” and unless you went and looked up everyone in your building (and your neighborhood), you would not even know they were there. FYi, there are currently ~50 registered sex offenders living on the UWS who have been here for years, living in “regular” buildings, and going about their lives in a normal manner. So stigmatizing them as a monolithic block is not only unfair, but inaccurate.
The UWS has been taken over by a bunch of provincial yokels from out-of-state who have turned the UWS into a microcosm of their suburban hometown from which they escaped. The UWS used to be an intellectual, artistic and interesting neighborhood in the 70s and 80s, but has since turned into a boring semi-suburban wasteland with useless stores and nail salons just like the ones in suburban strip malls in the suburbs. The bumpkins opposing the shelters are just upset because they thought that their suburban UWS bubble that they created here was a completely impenetrable gated community that would shield the suburban UWS from the rest of NYC.
To Ian Alterman:
You complain that other commenters are “putting words in my mouth” That would be more difficult to do if you would only shut it once in awhile. You seem to feel a compulsion to shut down each and every opinion that does not jibe with your own.
And to be an insulting, condescending and “holier than thou” know it all when doing it.
Just sayin’
PESQ: LOLOL! Nicely put!
LGC:
What I feel a compulsion to do is to disseminate accurate information, instead of listening to people talk out of their buttholes. Ii have never “shut down” ANYONE, not could I. And a person can only speak from their actual knowledge and experience. And that is what I do. If you feel insulted that I speak the truth, or that I am condescending because I speak from knowledge and experience, or that I am “holier than thou” because I know what I am talking about, maybe the problem lies with you, not me.
These people are Ostriches, their heads are in the sand. The UWS is emptyng out, families are heading for the exits. They refuse to see what’s happening. The City and the State on and off have long turned out the Homeless to live in the streets. Most of these people are not poor schlmiels who can’t afford housing. Most have serious Psychiatric issues and need to be in a facility where they can supervised long term, not dumped in a hotel with lip service for services. They are left to wander the streets, defecating and exposing themselves in public. They area hazard with respect to COVID19. Not only is the neighborhood in danger but as the weather gets colder so are these people. It’s as if Mayor Putz wants this to happen.
Marty:
What I don’t think many people understand is that things are not always mutually exclusive. I can have sympathy for, and even welcome, a temporary influx of homeless people in order to save lives and, AT THE SAME TIME, work toward a clean and safe neighborhood.
As for your comment about the homeless. you are not entirely correct. Most estimates are that ~1/3 of the homeless have mental health issues; but like autism, mental illness exists on a spectrum, and not all of them have issues bad enough to require them to be hospitalized, etc. If that Is required, they are mostly already there.
You are also incorrect about “lip service for service.” The three social service providers at the hotels provide a full range of services, including on-site nurses and health care, Covid testing (some of it mandatory), on-site case managers to handle their needs for IDs, benefits, housing, etc., and many other services, both on-site and off. Some of the men and women have jobs and go to work every day. In fact, they are probably getting MORE services at the hotels than they were in the shelters from which they came.
Finally, you are also incorrect about homeless being “a hazard with respect to Covid19.” In fact, the rate of Covid-19 among the homeless is LOWER than that among the general population, as is the mortality rate. if anything, WE are a danger to THEM.
It would help if you and others here armed yourselves with factual and accurate information, rather than making comments and claims that are inaccurate, sometimes wildly so.
Marty,
Same situation as Los Angeles and San Francisco. Officials paint these individuals as simply having a short streak of bad luck, being “priced out” of the housing market.
They ignore the fact that many are addicts or dealing with other psychological issues.
Sad to see what is happening. Now people are vilified for working hard to afford a safe clean neighborhood then speaking out with concern to keep it that way.
This “sleep out” trivializes homelessness.
“Hey Sarah! I have an idea! Let’s play homeless person for the night. You bring the wine, I’ll bring the cheese. It’ll be fun! We’ll get all sidewalk dirty. Really get into it.
Then, in the morning (or when the wine is gone) we can go back to my $900k apartment and shower the “homelessness” off.”
What a joke.
Ian, Elizabeth, etc – Some perspective from a small business owner – It is absolutely what many of us wish, that people can be safe & be in a home. If you just look at Broadway and Amsterdam, I see people who are new homeless, old homeless, in shelters, etc constantly stopping people, yelling, spitting, peeing, physically reaching out, rolling joints and smoking pot all up and down Broadway, including from 92nd to 97th, IN FRONT OF OUR STORES, actively open, on both sides of the street.
We constantly try to emotionally support each other and have to call the police to help us. I’ve had an aggressive man come in and scream at a new customer because she asked him to move aside when she was trying to come in my door. I’ve had a homeless woman spit in my store because I asked her to wear a mask. I am exhausted trying to keep my windows and door clean after someone pees in our doorway while we are open. I am not embellishing, this has happened and keeps happening to us.
Do you think this makes people want to walk by and come in my store when they see these problems?
Is this fair to us small business owners who invested OUR LIFE SAVINGS into our stores and the community and are now struggling terribly after being closed for months?
There needs to be accountability, safety and ENFORCEMENT of programs if we are shouldering EVEN MORE homeless in the area. The enforcement is not happening so the neighborhood is spiraling downward. I honestly hope we have small businesses left after all this. We are struggling.
UWSIDER: You are so right, it is a joke. Just not the funny kind. I wonder if between making banners & signs and other “art” this group will take a time out to make S’mores. Can’t have a proper camping trip without S’mores.
I’m sure this event will do wonders for the Saturday evening dinner trade at Nice Matin and other nearby restaurants which are already struggling to survive. I can’t imagine how it will benefit the homeless residents of the Lucerne.
UWSider:
As I pointed out, the “Sleep Out” concept came from Covenant House, which serves homeless and runaway youth. It was founded FOR THE VERY PURPOSE of expressing solidarity with the homeless. It does not “trivialize” it. It is done in many cities, and there is a National one done every year throughout the U.S. Thousands participate.
LGC:
The “Sleep Out” was developed by Covenant House, which serves homeless and runaway youth. They developed it SPECIFICALLY as a way of showing solidarity with the homeless. “Sleep Outs” occur all over the country, and there is an annual National Sleep Out that brings thousands upon thousands of people throughout the U.S.
You might also be interested to know that Nice Matin is supportive of this event and of the facility in general. both their owner and GM have expressed support.
The Sleep Out itself may not “benefit” the homeless directly. But the remainder of the event, which includes a supply drive, and a food drive of items they do not get in their meals, very definitely benefits them.
“Same situation as Los Angeles and San Francisco. Officials paint these individuals as simply having a short streak of bad luck, being “priced out” of the housing market.”
That is not what is happening in NYC. Fist, no one suggests that the homeless are experiencing a “short streak of bad luck.” Homelessness is rarely a “short” affair, both because of what it does to people, and because the bureaucracy to escape homelessness is nearly impenetrable. As for “riced out of the housing market,” if you have zero or ultra-minimal income then you are priced out of EVER having a roof over your head. “Affordable housing” is no such thing; it is “affordable” only to those within a minimal income parameter. Homeless don’t qualify.
“They ignore the fact that many are addicts or dealing with other psychological issues.”
First, mental illness, like autism, exists on a spectrum. It is not monolithic. so different people need different levels of care. And no one is ignoring it. The City-run shelters are admittedly badly managed, and offer minimal services, though they do refer clients to off-sit services, including for mental illness. As for the provider-run shelters, they offer the full range of social and health services, particularly including determining the degree of mental illness, and if it is sever enough, taking the steps necessary to find them supportive housing that includes services on site.
“Sad to see what is happening. Now people are vilified for working hard to afford a safe clean neighborhood then speaking out with concern to keep it that way.”
Unfortunately, whether intended or not, “safe and clean” has become a euphemism for “NIMBY.”
Small Business Owner:
I am really sorry to hear about what you are experiencing. And yes, B’way between 92 and 98 is a particularly problematic area. Before I comment, I want to point out that the “focus” of the current issue has been the “hotel homeless.” And I want to make sure that people here understand that that is NOT what you are addressing; that you are addressing a more general and widespread problem with the increasing number of street homeless. If I am wrong, please let me know.
However, if that is correct, I absolutely agree that the problem has gotten worse. Down here (West 60s, 70s, 80s), it began to get worse about two or three years ago, very slowly, for reasons I have not been able to pinpoint. (I do know that it has been a more serious problem up by you, for longer than 3 years.) It then got dramatically worse when the MTA closed the subways, and all of the homeless living down there were forced to the surface (a factor that many people forget). Many of those people were panhandlers to begin with, and that caused further issues, since there was simply not enough “territory” for everyone.
And although the hotel homeless have not really cause all THAT much problem beyond some unpleasant quality of life offenses, their presence in our area, particularly on the B’way malls, has simply added another element to the problem.
AS for the problems you are having, I am glad to hear you are in touch with the 2-4. Have they been helpful at all? If not, what are they failing to do that they CAN do (and keep in mind that the NYPD can only enforce laws that exist, and only to the degree that their “tools” allow them to)? What are they telling you?
All that said, it seems that the most important thing you need to do, as I have said to others even about quality of life and other crimes, is to lobby lawmakers to create laws that NEED to exist and strengthen laws that already exist. Because the NYPD has lost not simply funding – and this important programs – but also enforcement “tools” that they used to have (and I am not talking about choke holds and the like). For example, lack of funding forced the closure of the NYPD’s Homeless Outreach Unit (HOU), which was a really great and dedicated service that worked with the street homeless on an ongoing basis. And overzealous reform ideas led to shutting down the (plainclothes) Street Crimes Unit – the very unit that would have been on the front lines of the current situation on the UWS. So the NYPD has been hobbled, which leaves elected officials and laws.
Ian, the 24th precinct has reviewed with me the laws and I realize how much they are not ALLOWED to do. What they have done for us is be willing to go up to the homeless problem individuals and move them along, away from my store. But ridiculously time consuming and as you’ve noted, the laws need to be changed to have more affect. I constantly write emails to all of our city and state officials who I feel completely let down by. They have all turned a blind eye for what’s been happening the last 3 years yet claim they worry about vacant stores and small businesses. Yeah right, they don’t care about our streets, safety, small businesses or their residents who pay taxes and work hard. If they did, they would toughen up the laws to make people accept help or move on. So tired of this city and state administration and can’t wait for 2021 elections!
Small Business Owner:
I hear you. It is a sticky wicket. On the one hand, people, even homeless and mentally ill people, do have rights, including the right to refuse assistance or treatment. They also have the right to be wherever any other person is permitted to be: the sidewalk, the malls, the park, etc. On the other hand, business owners (and others) also have rights, including the right to be able to conduct their business without harassment of either the business or its customers.
Sadly, at this moment, the onus is on the business owners to “move them along”; to go out and say, please move from in front of my store. sometimes this actually works; sometimes it doesn’t. If the person is “calm,” there’s not much you can do. If they become aggressive, then you can call 911 and explain that there is someone menacing you (or your customer) and you need assistance. That call will be transferred to the 24th Precinct and you should get a response.
Beyond this, I’m not sure what else one can do unless and until laws are created or changed, and the NYPd is given back some of the “tools” that were taken from it, either directly or through partial defunding. For example, the NYPD had a fabulous Homeless outreach Unit (HOU), which was the victim of budget cuts. I knew many of the officers, and they were a truly dedicated bunch. Sad that they are gone.
Thank you Ian. You are speaking for many of us in these comments. I live right by the Lucerne and people continue to dine at Nice Matin immediately next door without problem. I’ve never seen the area so hoppin’ with outdoor bars and restaurants.
To those of you who don’t understand why we are upset, the people in the shelters are being made out to be people to be afraid of, when they are actually just poor people down on their luck. Compassion is called for, not revulsion. The behavior of some in our neighborhood is embarrassing in its outward nimbyism and coded racism. It has been repeated and quoted in the NY Post and by Sean Hannity on Fox News. So as not to appear that all white UWSers are racist, we are trying to get our voices heard too. That’s why I chalk. That’s why I write letters.
There is a street homeless problem (as there is every August not just 2020), but it is more likely to be people NOT being served by Project Renewal at the Lucerne. (People with carts of belongings are not living in a shelter, of course. )
The people I know against these temporary shelters are mostly luxury real estate developers. Multi-millionaires. Check out the list of signatories on their petition. While those on the compassionate petition are rabbis, social workers, lawyers, teachers, professors. Be aware of those stoking fear. These are moneyed interests intent on firing up some angry white women to do their dirty work.
And to be sure, women get street harassed constantly by men of all incomes and races. It’s a major major quality of life problem for us, making us cross the street, fear for our safety, hide under large coats. News flash!! This is not new!! We do that daily our whole life!! You men need to get your act together — all of you. That’s the criminal element in the UWS and most neighborhoods, as far as I can tell: men. If the shelters have to go due to harassment, business men also should be booted from the UWS for their vile catcalls at this middle class mother of two!
Ian, you can stay, you sound like you aren’t a misogynist.
I disagree and feel that the homeless in the hotels are a dangerous problem for everybody. It’s turning into a zoo here. These people need real medical and psychological help, not the courteous and patronizing attention from the hotel staffs. You’re obviously a radical socialist and need to stop drinking the kool aid.
Thomas:
That is not correct. At the shelters, beds are 2′-3′ apart, and the air does not circulate well (which means droplets remain in the air longer). At the hotels, they are one or two to a room, the latter only if the beds ca remain 6′ apart. There is A/C in every room, so the air moves more. So the hotel rooms are MUCH safer with respect to the virus.
As for meals, they men are provided three no-contact meals per day in their rooms. So that is taken care of.
As for sitting outside without masks, so do plenty of local residents. Targeting the homeless men for this is both inaccurate and unfair.
As for urinating, it is not the “hotel homeless” who are doing this; it is the street homeless, who have nowhere to go since libraries and Starbucks and other places they used to go are not available. The number of street homeless has increased manifold since the MTA closed the subways, and forced all of those living down there to come to the surface. THAT is what we are seeing with things like public urination and even defecation. Because the hotel homeless DO use the bathrooms at the hotel.
Thomas: “Since you are so confident of the policy’s benign affect to the area. I invite you to bring your family children to help with the art projects and sleep out. This is not preventing Covid 19 spread and is a further excuse by our Mayor to reverse gentrification in NYC.”
Firstly, the even tis not sponsored or even necessarily endorsed by the mayor or the City. It is sponsored by an UWS group that took a different road than the NIMBY types. And I will actually be at that event, and if I had children, I would absolutely bring them, as many of my neighbors are doing.
The even tis not being held to “prevent Covid 19” (as I explained above, that is not an issue here, since the men are mandatorily tested once a month, and can request a test at any time, and all are wellness-checked six times a day, including taking their temperature. If anyone is even suspected of having symptoms, they are immediately removed to a quarantine location).
“Sleep Outs” were developed by Covenant House, which serves runaway and homeless youth. They were created in order to show solidarity with the homeless. They occur all over the country at different times, and there is a National event held on one night in which tens of thousands of people participate.
The other aspects of the event include “drives” for supplies and food (items they do not get with their meals). So it DOES benefit the residents.
JR:
Thank you for your post and your kind words.
No, I am not a misogynist. LOL. In fact, I was raised by a “Simoe de Beauvoir” feminist: someone who was a feminist before the word was coined, and when Gloria Steinhem was in high school. LOL. So I am probably among the least likely people to engage in anything of that sort.
One other buttress to something you said. You talked about the “street homeless.” That issue has grown considerably. It began, slowly, about two or three year ago. And it became a HUGE problem when the MTA closed the subways and all of the homeless that lived down there were forced to the surface. It is they, NOT the “hotel homeless” (who, obviously, have clean bathrooms at the hotels), who are responsible for the public urination and defecation, and are probably far more responsible for things like aggressive panhandling, harassing, etc. The “hotel homeless” are certainly responsible for some quality of life crimes, like drinking alcohol and smoking pot openly. But according to the NYPD, in the month that they have been at the hotels, there has not been a single arrest for a “personal” crime. (There were three felony arrests at the Lucerne: one for stealing a Citybike, one for stealing a package from a building lobby, and one for drugs.)
So the scapegoating of the “hotel homeless” is exactly that: scapegoating. People “need” an “other” to blame. The hotel homeless are an easy target. 🙁
Harriet: “I disagree and feel that the homeless in the hotels are a dangerous problem for everybody. It’s turning into a zoo here. These people need real medical and psychological help, not the courteous and patronizing attention from the hotel staffs. You’re obviously a radical socialist and need to stop drinking the kool aid.”
First, I make two round a day of the areas around the Belleclaire and Lucerne. I also walk around the neighborhood a lot. You are describing conditions as they were perhaps a week ago or so. I have seen virtually noting over the past week, particularly near the Lucerne, where even Kurt has been sleeping most of the time. I do still see a few hotel residents hanging out on the Bway mall, but they are quiet, and there has been almost no “activity” the way you seem to be describing it. Te NYPD confirms this.
Second, as for “help” for the residents, you apparently didn’t read my post carefully. It is not the “hotel staff” that are providing services, it is a full-time staff of 50 people from Project Renewal. That staff includes two program directors (8 am to 4 pm) and a supervisor (4-12 and 12-8). Also regularly on site are two VPs of Project Renewal, and even the COO and CEO. (The CEO lives just a few blocks from the hotel.)
Residents are served three “no contact” meals per day. There are six daily wellness checks of every resident (they are required to be there and answer their door), including two during which their temperature is taken. Anyone even suspected of having Covid symptoms is immediately removed from the hotel to a quarantine location. Each resident also has a case manger on-site who is responsible for maintaining contact and working on their various cases (e.g., obtaining IDs, obtaining benefits like SS and Medicaire/Medicaid, occupational therapy, and finding work and/or permanent housing). There is also a nurse on site, as well as a mobile health van that comes to the building two or three times per week, so ongoing health care is available to all residents. There is also a psychiatrist on call; she was previously the “locked ward” director at Bellevue. She also visits the building personally.
So not one single thing you have said is accurate. I would suggest that it is YOU who are drinking the NIMBY Kool-Aid, and making comments based on a complete lack of accurate information.
PESQ:
“The UWS has been taken over by a bunch of provincial yokels from out-of-state who have turned the UWS into a microcosm of their suburban hometown from which they escaped”
You have a point. However, our experience (as well as quite a few of our friends) has been the reverse of what you suggest. We never thought we could live in the suburbs. In March we left the City for what we thought would be just a couple of months. Then, being able to work remotely, and the pandemic persisting, we decided to stay longer, and gradually discovered the joy of the suburban community life. Now, seeing what’s happening to our beloved City, and especially UWS, we’ve decided to stay permanently — and we’re not alone.
So it seems like you are in luck! With so many like us escaping, pretty soon the UWS will be free of the “bunch of provincial yokels” and you’ll get the interesting and colorful crowd that you want….